Maybe I'm getting old

[gstark]

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man. Probably both!

But the term "FAQ" stands for Frequently Asked Questions!

Its proposed purpose in life is to save me from having to answer, for you, those very same Frequently Asked Questions every bloody day. Why do you think they might be referred to as Frequently Asked Questions??

So, can somebody please explain to me why it is that, over the last few days, no less than a good half dozen of you have been asking me questions that already have answers provided for you in the Frequently Asked Questions section of the forum.

And, from the FAQ:

I received a sarcastic response to a question from gstark
That's too bad, really.

The FAQ is here for your benefit. if you have chosen to not read it, that is hardly my concern.

Please understand that it becomes rather tedious to have to answer the same questions all the time, and while we will try to help you as much as we can, you need to be prepared to help yourself as well.

If you have read the FAQ, and you then still have a question, fine, please ask. But please do not ask me to answer questions, the answers for which are in the FAQ.

For those who haven't noticed, there's a link to the FAQ in the top menu section of almost every page, excepting maybe the front page portal, where it's in the leftmost column.

I am at the point where my patience in this has worn treacherously thin, and sarcastic responses are about to let fly. Who'll be first cab off the rank?

...

...

I will probably bring the new version of the forum up next weekend. We have most of the code in place; there's a couple of bugs - appearance only - that are causing me grief, but because they're only presentation issues, I really don't care too much.

Thanx, y'all, and READ THE BLOODY FAQ, DAMMIT!



One other point: when completing the payment advice, please check, and check again, that you have entered the correct order number. A couple of orders have not had this done, and the automated system breaks down because of this.

FYI, when the new forum software comes online, this won't be an issue. I'm making some changes to the ordering system that will give you greater visibility of your orders, all from within the boundaries of the forum interface.

[christiand]

Happy new year Gary,

calm down - your blood preassure is way too high

Cheers,
CD

[blacknstormy]

There's a FAQ section ?????????

[ATJ]

There's a FAQ section ?????????

Watch it, you might get told to FAQ off!

[BullcreekBob]

Perhaps we can declare tomorrow - Thursday 10th of January to be "Be original to Mr Stark day" and as a special exercise we should all make a point of sending a PM asking a question that NO ONE has ever previously thought of.

I can only imagine the amount of effort and energy that it takes to make this site the joy and success and education it is. Gary - Thank you. And even if you are an old grumpy bloke - *hug*.

[moz]

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man. Probably both!

But the term "FAQ" stands for Frequently Asked Questions!

The questions I've seen this week are indeed in the FAQ, so that part of your disgruntlement is in a way justified. But to me, if you are having the same problem repeatedly then your system is at fault as much as the stream of "faulty" users.

I recall that when I first arrived I spent a considerable period reading both the main FAQ and the various "how to" type threads in different forums. After that I suggested to you that someone should probably update and reorganise those things because too many of the really useful bits of info were hidden on page 12 of a thread called "Matty's new lens" or similar. At the very least saying "read all the past messages" is unhelpful.

Unfortunately I have not managed to come up with a better system, despite thinking about this intermittently for the last year or two. Sorry

[gstark]

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man. Probably both!

But the term "FAQ" stands for Frequently Asked Questions!

The questions I've seen this week are indeed in the FAQ, so that part of your disgruntlement is in a way justified. But to me, if you are having the same problem repeatedly then your system is at fault as much as the stream of "faulty" users.

They're variations of the same theme.

What you've seen in the forum is but a small part of what I have the pleasure of dealing with.

At risk of putting a few noses out of joint, here's some of the stuff that I've had to deal with.

This is just today: just one day. I'll leave out the names and goodies, but it's enough to give you an idea of what I have to deal with.


This was late last night, but I didn't see it till this morning.

Gary,

Is this in stock. for the price quoted, is postage insurance included, in case anything goes missing?

Also, if I buy x else where and y, will i need anything else?

Ok, this is a legitimate query. I have no problems with this, and I answered this with appropriate detail, and in good faith.

I then got this pm ...

okay gary,

Can i place an order for a x and a y.

does poon stock the z as well?

My response to the first of those questions was "Is the ordering system not working? ". My response to the second was that I would endeavour to find out.

Here's the third PM from the same person ...

Can i pay via credit car?

I don't have an issue with the typo. I do take issue with the question.

My response?

<sigh>

Sorry to be a PITA for you, but there's a bloody good reason that I ask people to read the FAQ.

Please consider:

Cash only, paid directly to Poon's AU account.

You then arrange a bank transfer to Poon's account

Payment is made into Poon's Australian bank account with HSBC. This is best handled by internet banking, direct from your own account.

No, we do not take Paypal or credit cards.

If you have questions beyond those already answered in the FAQ, then I am perfectly happy to answer them for you.

But you need to read the FAQ yourself. I refuse to do that for you, and I think it's somewhat disrespectful of you to be asking me these questions when the answers are already readily available to you.

The question that was asked was answered, in some way, FOUR BLOODY TIMES in the FAQ. The fourth of those answers was about as clear an answer to that person's question as you could get. Is there some part of "No, we do not take Paypal or credit cards." that is unclear?

If only that person would take a few moments to look!

But that's just this morning, from one member.

Here's a second one, also posted late last night, but again not addressed by me till this morning.

hi Gstark, im interested in the x if you can still source them from poon. how do you usually arrange delivery/money?
regards

The whole damn process is quite clearly described, step by step, in the FAQ.

If only that person would take a few moments to look!

But wait, there's more.

I am wodering how long to expect delivery for orders via the site. Not rushing, just enquiring.

Is the basic concept of expected delivery times addressed in the FAQ? Let's explore that avenue for a moment ...

Usually there's no issues relating to stock, but of course, some items are eternally popular, and that's out of our control. Typically, your order will be in your hands within a week; time it right, and could be quite a bit sooner.

That said, for some popular items, there may also occasionally be some contention between us and Poon's more traditional channels. Poon is in business to make himself money, and I have seen a couple of instances whereby we have had to take a back seat because he can (and has) sold that item for a better (for him) price.

Most of that is repeated in the answer to the next question in the FAQ as well. Please note that the question wasn't about whether something was in stock; it was about anticipated delivery times.

That's only the PMs. There have been emails as well, and you' have seen the public posts in the forum.

Again, this is just today's stuff.

I have no problems whatsoever with legitimate questions.

But I am losing my tolerance for those who cannot be bothered to even do me the courtesy of reading a simple document before asking me a question.

Please, all I am asking is that y'all help yourselves before asking me for help.

Please, respect my time, and my resources.

[Ladybird]

Gary, you must be a very tolerant man. I'm not really a people person (as my signature suggests) and I don't envy you one bit.

Can you just make up a template PM/email reply that simply says "Read the FAQ or use the search tool"? But then you would still need to read the emails/PMs, which doesn't alleviate the frustration really.......

Maybe you could have a weekly public shaming of the most stupid question asked? I'd be pretty interested in that!! And perhaps it would make ppl think twice before sending you a PM/email.

[gstark]

Gary, you must be a very tolerant man. I'm not really a people person (as my signature suggests) and I don't envy you one bit.

I have a very long fuse, and I am very patient.

But when I reach my limit .... that's when the fun begins.

Maybe you could have a weekly public shaming of the most stupid question asked? I'd be pretty interested in that!! And perhaps it would make ppl think twice before sending you a PM/email.

I'm tempted, but that would piss people off. Not that pissing people off has ever stopped me in the past ....

[sirhc55]

The post header is a question? If so, join the club Gary

[who]

Perhaps we can declare tomorrow - Thursday 10th of January to be "Be original to Mr Stark day" and as a special exercise we should all make a point of sending a PM asking a question that NO ONE has ever previously thought of.

And Gary will probably have a banning day That will cut down on the questions no end

And are we starting a FAQ jokes session?

Here is a short reply for you Gary to all : FAQ it!

[gstark]

The post header is a question? If so, join the club Gary

Thanx, Chris.


While you were posting that, another PM from a member - who again hasn't read the FAQ - or indeed, the front page of the forum - has just lobbed into my inbox ...

I hope this isn't an insanely stupid question.

I'm looking for the price list from Poon/yourself.

I'm not sure how it all works but was keen to see what kind of money a 80-200 2.8 might go for?

Thanks

For crying out bloody loud!

[jamesw]

Gary, go for a lollerskate

[blacknstormy]

Maybe you could have a weekly public shaming of the most stupid question asked?

now I'm trying to think of really stupid questions to ask

.......

[drifter]

I've never bought anything through the site and don't have any immediate plans to do so but i think your way to kind offering the service through your site in the first place.Its fraught with danger.Mainly i guess from interlopers who blow in and hope to post a few threads and cash in.
I can't help rolling my eyes every time you post up another rant at the insolence of the kiddies running amok in the forum.Posting too many pics, oversize,or not reading the FAQ etc.This is probably your third in a month.You have a great place here and i'm sure some need the ruler over the knuckles every so often but lighten up a little and don't patronise the majority to make your point about a minority.This is the internet.If you want people to read the FAQ it needs to smack them in the face as soon as they open the website.At the moment the site's not the most navigation friendly.

Regards Tony C

[moz]

I hope this isn't an insanely stupid question.

For crying out bloody loud!

Perhaps we need a "ask your FAQs here" forum?

I have to admit, my assumption was that part of the "special deal" was that the administration overhead was low because we didn't ask the stupid questions. Perhaps I'm an idiot.

[Raskill]

Hi Gary,

Can I place an order through Poon through this thread and pay by paypal?

Thanks!!



hehehehe

[Underload]

I like the earlier idea posted - something along the lines of a "Stupid questions that I get asked' thread. But, I think the worrisome thing is that it'd get scarily repetitive in a short amount of time

[MATT]

Hi Gary,

Can I place an order through Poon through this thread and pay by paypal?

Thanks!!



hehehehe

I havnt read the last 2 pages ..But cool we can now use PayPal cant what for creditcard

MATT

[gstark]

Tony,

Mainly i guess from interlopers who blow in and hope to post a few threads and cash in.

That's why we have this on a community membership basis.

50 posts, plus an image. You must have your location in your profile.

And it's not guaranteed: if we have any doubts, we (the mods) will discuss the member in question. Several have been discussed in the past, and we take wry amusement when we see somebody trying to get their post count up purely to try to take advantage of this service.

I can't help rolling my eyes every time you post up another rant at the insolence of the kiddies running amok in the forum.Posting too many pics, oversize,or not reading the FAQ etc.This is probably your third in a month.

I've not been counting, but the point is really very simple: the FAQ provides a great deal of very useful information to guide members' in their use of this site.

Nobody sits around with a gun at anybody's head telling them that they need to spend any time here; the rules we have put in place are there for the benefit of all. Not everyone has broadband, or a high-end pc or monitor: the last thing they want to do is spend three days waiting while somebody's 3TB image of their kitten sleeping downloads.

So: the rules for image posting are drafted to enable everyone to post and critique, and enjoy, one another's images.

As I noted, nobody compels anybody to visit this site, and those who don;t like to follow those guidelines are free to not visit.

The rules surrounding the ordering system are a little tighter, because the ordering system has a direct impact upon my time and my resources. Is it unreasonable for me to ask people to respect my time and resources? I don't believe so, but I accept that others might disagree.

That is fine, those who disagree are also free to not visit this site.

Is it that difficult to find the FAQ? I don't think so: there's a link in the top menu of almost every page, and there's a link on the front page too.

You have a great place here and i'm sure some need the ruler over the knuckles every so often but lighten up a little

Thank you for the kind words, but no, why should I lighten up a little? Do think it's unreasonable for me to ask people that they should read something that is provided explicitly for them to read?

Do you think it is reasonable for people to ask me, ad nauseum, questions for which the answers exist in a document that is but one click away?

Hell, it is way quicker for them to just look at the damn FAQ than it is to ask me. I am - and I have said this - always happy to answer legitimate questions, but for Christ's sake, I do not appreciate that people think I am here for people to just abuse my time and resources

and don't patronise the majority to make your point about a minority.

I am not going to respond to this comment of yours.

Suffice to say that you do not seem to appreciate the time and effort that I put into this site. I do not subscribe to your "hit them in the face with the FAQ" theory. It's there, with a link on every page.

It couldn't be more accessible.

It really couldn't be easier.

[gstark]

I have to admit, my assumption was that part of the "special deal" was that the administration overhead was low because we didn't ask the stupid questions. Perhaps I'm an idiot.

No you're not, and your assumption is 100% correct.

[Bugeyes]

Just my 2 cents...

The link to the FAQ is way too small, the home page has a lot of info there and trying to track down the faqs would be quite difficult for new-comers. Maybe make it more prominent and have in the help section as well. Actually the whole home page could do with a revamp, it just seems to too cluttered and difficult to find what you’re looking for.

[gstark]

Actually the whole home page could do with a revamp, it just seems to too cluttered and difficult to find what you’re looking for.

That is about to happen, actually. We'll be upgrading the forum software over the weekend, methinks.

[Kyle]

Gary,

As an admin, you should be used to this a fair bit. Part and parcel of running/owning a forum community.

Maybe you should vent about it on your radio show?

YES, it's all in the FAQ...
YES, sometimes some people will avoid reading the FAQ...

Can you stop it? Nope

[Greg B]

I have a very long fuse,...

And I have been assured that mine is normal, but I hear what you are saying.

......and I am very patient.

I don't know Gary, after all, you did give up wedding photography 20+ years ago ....




I work in an industry where we are dealing with transactions which are highly significant in people's lives, yet
an alarmingly large proportion of people do not read the important letter we send them, do not do the things that
they are told are absolutely essential, and then are surprised, shocked, even angry that things go badly wrong.

It never ceases to amaze me.

Here at DSLRusers, we have developed a set of rules, the sole purpose of which, is to improve the forum experience. I
am sure most of you have visited poorly run forums and can understand why a well run forum is so much better.

We also have access to very well priced camera stuff, and the only thing you have to do to get the benefit is to follow a
few simple processes. There is a considerable amount of work involved in running the "shop", but the documented processes
will assist enormously.

So... to those of you new to the forum or wanting to buy for the first time, read the FAQs and see how you go. Honest
questions or misunderstandings will be treated very gently indeed. Stupid questions which could have been answered
with a tiny bit of effort may be subjected to some derision.

To those who think that having rules is an imposition, or enforcing the rules is unfortunate, or that frustration with
those who flout the rules is the fault of those who need to deal with it rather than the "flouters", I recommend a
few moments of reflection.

[Geoff]

Greg - so very well said!!

[drifter]

Thank you for the kind words, but no, why should I lighten up a little? Do think it's unreasonable for me to ask people that they should read something that is provided explicitly for them to read?

Do you think it is reasonable for people to ask me, ad nauseum, questions for which the answers exist in a document that is but one click away?

Hell, it is way quicker for them to just look at the damn FAQ than it is to ask me. I am - and I have said this - always happy to answer legitimate questions, but for Christ's sake, I do not appreciate that people think I am here for people to just abuse my time and resources

I understand your frustration.I just took issue with it when i read the notice and it bugged me so i replied.
The same people who don't read the FAQ probably aren't reading the headlines critising them that your posting either.I don't know what the answer is.C'est la vie?

I am not going to respond to this comment of yours.

Suffice to say that you do not seem to appreciate the time and effort that I put into this site. I do not subscribe to your "hit them in the face with the FAQ" theory. It's there, with a link on every page.

I do appreciate the effort you put in.As far as i know this is one of only a handful of Australian based websites for slr shooters on the web and you have done a great job and deserve credit for doing so off your own bat without advertising etc.But at times in my opinion(and its my opinion only) you come across as patronising ,maybe its is lost in the translation to print.
Regards Tony C

[sirhc55]

With this posting I will have reached 10,000 posts and will at this time admit that I have never read the FAQ’s. Why? Common sense dictates my actions - when I post pics they are always a maximum of 800 pixels on the longest edge and a max of 4 pics (makes sense when you look at screen sizes and internet speeds, especially for dialup). If I want to buy (and I have) I just follow the order procedure and then wait for delivery.

The implementation of this site through Gary & Leigh’s work plus the support that Poon has offered in the form of fantastic pricing brings to all of us a forum that stands as one of the best on the web. One that should not be abused or to put it more bluntly, will not be abused.

We have had in the past members who have abused not only the forum but individual members. These people have thankfully disappeared. But, in saying this, we have had a couple or more who left or were banned but returned as valuable assets and continue to be so.

If you don’t know the answer to your question(s), first try the FAQ’s and then a general search.

Diatribe has now ended

[Bindii]

Ooooh someone didn't take their happy pills this morning.. lol..

but lucky for you we happen to like grumpy old men in these parts...

Keep on being you mister... we wouldnt have ya any other way!

[gstark]

Ooooh someone didn't take their happy pills this morning..

Sue, this goes, for me, well beyond a happy pills response.

Most here simply don't appreciate some of the issues - and the time it may take to deal with those issues - that I need to address in trying to help keep people happy.

Let me expand upon this a little ...

There are those who constantly send me "are we there yet? are we there yet?" emails. I try to be civil, but I really don't appreciate getting pestered. It's one sure way to piss me off. And it only takes a couple of people like that to start taking up more than their fair share of my time and resources.

Now, add into the mix the fact that I also have to try to field the legitimate queries - is x in stock? or what's the price of y? - which often means that I have to ask HK and wait for a response.

That's fine, but I have found that I can only ever ask one question at a time, and then wait for answer. If I do anything more than that, most likely none of the questions get answered. Perhaps it's because they, as non-native-English speaking people, view the (multiple) query as too complex? I don't know, but I've found that asking a single question, and then waiting for the answer, seems to be the best policy.

So I ask. One question at a time. If I'm lucky, I will only get replies in about 50% of the cases.

Case in point: I asked two questions this evening. The first one I asked at 7:09 pm. it was a stock question - "Do you still have any of x in stock?" - and it remains unanswered.

I then tried a follow-up to get the status on an outstanding order. I asked that question at 8:18pm, and it was answered.

At half past nine!

Earlier this week, on two separate occasions, each on a different day, I asked after the stock situation for another item. In each instance, that question ended the conversation we were having.

Coincidence? Perhaps.

But I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating that is for me, because I am trying to provide a good service for everyone, but all of this sort of thing does take up a significant amount of time.

My time.

Let's continue ...

Underlying all of this is the very simple, very plain fact that I welcome legitimate queries, and I will generally go out of my way to try to help people ...

One person, who ordered something directly through HKS but was being, I thought, rather impatient, asked me on Monday to contact Poon on their behalf to enquire as to the status of their order. As the order had only been placed on Thursday, I politely pointed out that I felt they needed to be a little more patient, and declined their request to help.

Around the same time, another person who had recently placed an order for some out of stock goods was also emailing me every day with "has it come into stock yet?" queries. It's reasonable to ask for status updates when the goods are out of stock, but not every bloody day.

An hour before I was told the item had come into stock, this person contacted Poon directly (even though his order had been placed through our facilities) and canceled the order, without doing me the courtesy of letting me know.

So, when I queried Poon as to the status of the product - which I regularly do in these instances - he tells me that it's just come into stock. I then start to confirm with him that he can now fulfill the order of X, but he then tells me that no, he won't need to do that because X has contacted him and canceled the order.

I don't mind that the order was canceled. I do think that it was disrespectful and wrong that the order was canceled without the member telling me. He eventually let me know that he had canceled the order a couple of days later, but my point remains that I feel this individual was over-using my resources.

Now, that's the normal, the legitimate, stuff that I need to deal with on a daily basis.

How much more time do people think I have available for them, in order to deal with those who don't do just that little bit that I ask in order to help the whole system work more smoothly?

I have to admit, my assumption was that part of the "special deal" was that the administration overhead was low because we didn't ask the stupid questions.

Exactly!

[ATJ]

Gary Stark - The Jeremy Clarkson of DSLRUsers.




And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

[norbs]

If it is too much work, scrap it! Easy fix.

As to the FAQ.

What guidelines apply to the posting of images
The Image Critiques and Reviews section here is for Image Critiques and reviews. It is not a gallery section, and anyone who belives that it's to be used as a form of gallery is mistaken.

The concept is that you may post a few images - perhaps up to three or four - upon which you would like to have your techniques, posing, composition, whatever, examined and critiqued.

I dont know how often I see mention of this point, and yet it is still a gallery. Should that part be removed from the FAQ if it isn't going to be adhered to?

The Bargains area. I dont go there. I dont buy alot of gear, but if I do, I just go direct to Poon via eBay. I have seen you arc up a few times about the bargains area, so I do my bit to lighten the load.

[moz]

I dont know how often I see mention of this point, and yet it is still a gallery. Should that part be removed from the FAQ if it isn't going to be adhered to?

It's also the site of the POTW contest though, which makes things tricky for those member that want to enter (especially entrants who do want want their images to be critiqued).

[norbs]

I dont know how often I see mention of this point, and yet it is still a gallery. Should that part be removed from the FAQ if it isn't going to be adhered to?

It's also the site of the POTW contest though, which makes things tricky for those member that want to enter (especially entrants who do want want their images to be critiqued).

You are right, it is a tricky one. Why not have a sub forum purely as a gallery that people could put photos in for the senior staff to look through for POTW. Then leave the C&C forum for exactly that.

[ATJ]

I dont know how often I see mention of this point, and yet it is still a gallery. Should that part be removed from the FAQ if it isn't going to be adhered to?

It's also the site of the POTW contest though, which makes things tricky for those member that want to enter (especially entrants who do want want their images to be critiqued).

Which has always been a major inconsistency for me. A forum just for image critiques (and not showing off your best images) seems an odd place to choose the best picture of the week. But what would I know?

[bwhinnen]

With regards to the PoTW and where it comes from...

From where? The image review forum, private galleries, pixspot?

Dean,

Any and all of the above.

If an image is posted by a member and referred to within these forums, it's basically fair game.

There is also a gallery updates section that you can post updates to your private gallery into and people can display pics from there, the moderators can also look through these galleries (the link you posted) and pick a pic from there as well from the quote above...

(and no that wasn't in the FAQ, but in the sticky thread in the PoTW sub-forum)...

[gstark]

You are right, it is a tricky one. Why not have a sub forum purely as a gallery that people could put photos in for the senior staff to look through for POTW. Then leave the C&C forum for exactly that.

We do.

Two of them, in fact.

Personal Journeys, and .... what's it called now ???

...

Hmmmm ...

...

Oh yes, that's right ...

Gallery Updates!

Not quite what you're suggesting, but near enough, I think.

The bottom line is that it is not appropriate that this forum be used for gallery style postings. We - the Mods - have had this discussion a number of times, and that has always been the outcome.

A gallery is a personal space - your personal space - and as such, it is appropriate that you (or whomever) host and display that space. We have always been happy to carry references to your personal space, in whatever way that manifests itself, and I think that is entirely appropriate too.

Further, we always will apply a certain amount of flexibility in how we apply these guidelines, because there may be good reasons why flexibility needs to be so applied.

I personally believe that, in that regard, we have a quite reasonable balance here.

All of this discussion is, of course, off topic in this thread.

[ATJ]

With regards to the PoTW and where it comes from...

From where? The image review forum, private galleries, pixspot?

Dean,

Any and all of the above.

If an image is posted by a member and referred to within these forums, it's basically fair game.

There is also a gallery updates section that you can post updates to your private gallery into and people can display pics from there, the moderators can also look through these galleries (the link you posted) and pick a pic from there as well from the quote above...

(and no that wasn't in the FAQ, but in the sticky thread in the PoTW sub-forum)...

From the front page:

Gallery Updates
This section is for members who wish to post notifications of updates to their personal galleries. Please note that as the initial you may only include a link to your gallery - you may not, and you must not, include any images. That is where the fun begins: other members may then click on your link, and if they particularly like an image from your gallery, then they may post the link to your image, from your gallery, along with reasons as to why they like the image. Image critiquing is NOT permitted in this section, and images posted within this section are not considered for PotW. Posts made in this section will be excluded from the "Recent Posts" section on the front page, which means that you will need to actively seek posts here. This section will also prune itself, with stale topics being removed 14 days after the most recent post being made.

[bwhinnen]

With regards to the PoTW and where it comes from...

From where? The image review forum, private galleries, pixspot?

Dean,

Any and all of the above.

If an image is posted by a member and referred to within these forums, it's basically fair game.

There is also a gallery updates section that you can post updates to your private gallery into and people can display pics from there, the moderators can also look through these galleries (the link you posted) and pick a pic from there as well from the quote above...

(and no that wasn't in the FAQ, but in the sticky thread in the PoTW sub-forum)...

From the front page:

Gallery Updates
This section is for members who wish to post notifications of updates to their personal galleries. Please note that as the initial you may only include a link to your gallery - you may not, and you must not, include any images. That is where the fun begins: other members may then click on your link, and if they particularly like an image from your gallery, then they may post the link to your image, from your gallery, along with reasons as to why they like the image. Image critiquing is NOT permitted in this section, and images posted within this section are not considered for PotW. Posts made in this section will be excluded from the "Recent Posts" section on the front page, which means that you will need to actively seek posts here. This section will also prune itself, with stale topics being removed 14 days after the most recent post being made.

Oh NO a contradiction! Perhaps another section for the FAQ Gary, PoTW rules? You seem to be getting more work out of this...

[gstark]

Andrew,

Which has always been a major inconsistency for me. A forum just for image critiques (and not showing off your best images) seems an odd place to choose the best picture of the week. But what would I know?

But that's where you're wrong: it has never been best picture of the week.

It is more correctly just "Picture of the Week", and it has only ever been about a picture that, for whatever reason, grabs the moderator whose turn it is may be to make that selection. No questions asked by me; the mods always have complete open slather on this, and their choice is exactly that: their personal choice, for whatever reasons they see appropriate.

Thus the selection might be a "best" picture.

Or not.

Can you please define "best" ? Do try your best.

[gstark]

With regards to the PoTW and where it comes from...

From where? The image review forum, private galleries, pixspot?

Dean,

Any and all of the above.

If an image is posted by a member and referred to within these forums, it's basically fair game.

There is also a gallery updates section that you can post updates to your private gallery into and people can display pics from there, the moderators can also look through these galleries (the link you posted) and pick a pic from there as well from the quote above...

(and no that wasn't in the FAQ, but in the sticky thread in the PoTW sub-forum)...

From the front page:

Gallery Updates
This section is for members who wish to post notifications of updates to their personal galleries. Please note that as the initial you may only include a link to your gallery - you may not, and you must not, include any images. That is where the fun begins: other members may then click on your link, and if they particularly like an image from your gallery, then they may post the link to your image, from your gallery, along with reasons as to why they like the image. Image critiquing is NOT permitted in this section, and images posted within this section are not considered for PotW. Posts made in this section will be excluded from the "Recent Posts" section on the front page, which means that you will need to actively seek posts here. This section will also prune itself, with stale topics being removed 14 days after the most recent post being made.

Oh NO a contradiction! Perhaps another section for the FAQ Gary, PoTW rules? You seem to be getting more work out of this...

No, I do not believe that there is a contradiction. I suspect that my former quote predates the existence of the Gallery Updates section, which is a fairly recent addition to the forums.

Regardless, this area of discussion is off topic within this thread, so please, let's try to remain on topic and thus you can permit me to retain what little of my sanity remains.

[bwhinnen]

Oh NO a contradiction! Perhaps another section for the FAQ Gary, PoTW rules? You seem to be getting more work out of this...

No, I do not believe that there is a contradiction. I suspect that my former quote predates the existence of the Gallery Updates section, which is a fairly recent addition to the forums.

Regardless, this area of discussion is off topic within this thread, so please, let's try to remain on topic and thus you can permit me to retain what little of my sanity remains.

Sanity? Do you still have some? You mean there is hope for the rest of us then?

The reason I said it may be nice to be in the FAQ, is that it is a central repository that everyone should read (note the should) and all relevant and up to date details can be found therein. Otherwise things may get confusing, which given the Internet is a given anyway...

Another suggestion for you if you are in a listening mood, is perhaps when the FAQ is updated you post an announcement about it, that way it prompts people to re-read it, I know everyone generally reads the announcements anyway...

No more from me in this thread.

Sorry,
Brett

[ATJ]

Can you please define "best" ? Do try your best.

A dead Northern Irish footballer.

[gstark]

The reason I said it may be nice to be in the FAQ, is that it is a central repository that everyone should read (note the should) and all relevant and up to date details can be found therein. Otherwise things may get confusing, which given the Internet is a given anyway...

The problem with this is that, for the PotW, there are effectively no rules. As I mentioned earlier, it's the absolute choice of whomever, and for whatever reason they feel their choice should be made.

Another suggestion for you if you are in a listening mood

I am always listening.

The FAQ for the new forum codebase has already been brought into compliance with what is here, and I have asked the KMs to cast their eyes over it and advise me of any issues that they see.

I'm perfectly happy for others to have a look too; just send me a PM if you want to have a play in the new codebase before I pull this site down for the conversion. Please remember that the current version of the database there is just a converted copy of this database from about three weeks ago, and as such it is transient and temporary: any posts that you make there are very welcome, but will be wiped when the site goes live.

But any suggestions made (please make them over there) will be looked at and seriously considered, which has always been the case anyway.

I still have a few minor management tasks to convert from here, but they're only about a day's work in total now; I can do those while I have the conversion tasks running.

[gstark]

Can you please define "best" ? Do try your best.

A dead Northern Irish footballer.

I said "best", not "Best".

[gstark]

......and I am very patient.

I don't know Gary, after all, you did give up wedding photography 20+ years ago ....

Which, strange as it may seem, is a very good point for you to raise in this thread.

One of the primary reasons I gave up doing wedding photography was because of the need to have to deal with the public.

I will readily admit that I do not tolerate fools gladly. In terms of wedding photography, I had issues when the mother of the bride complained to me that her husband "looked drunk" in their photos. Well, ma'am, yes, and with very good reason.

While I'm not suggesting that those who failed to read the FAQ are fools, the continued, frequent and repeated instances of this happening do, for me, fall into a similar category as this mother of the bride, and thus they will have a similar affect upon me.

It never ceases to amaze me.

Nothing amazes me any more. I just get majorly pissed off!

Here at DSLRusers, we have developed a set of rules, the sole purpose of which, is to improve the forum experience. I am sure most of you have visited poorly run forums and can understand why a well run forum is so much better.

We also have access to very well priced camera stuff, and the only thing you have to do to get the benefit is to follow a few simple processes. There is a considerable amount of work involved in running the "shop", but the documented processes will assist enormously.

So... to those of you new to the forum or wanting to buy for the first time, read the FAQs and see how you go. Honest questions or misunderstandings will be treated very gently indeed. Stupid questions which could have been answered with a tiny bit of effort may be subjected to some derision.

To those who think that having rules is an imposition, or enforcing the rules is unfortunate, or that frustration with those who flout the rules is the fault of those who need to deal with it rather than the "flouters", I recommend a few moments of reflection.

Exactly. Thank you.

[phillipb]

Hey Gary, my most FAQ when I was doing weddings was " Can you make me look beautiful?" to which I usually replied "I'm a photographer not a magician"

[gstark]

Hey Gary, my most FAQ when I was doing weddings was " Can you make me look beautiful?" to which I usually replied "I'm a photographer not a magician"

Liar!

[phillipb]

I kid you not, but it was usually from the guests at the reception, I was required to take photos of all of them at the tables, which I didn't give a stuff about.

[gstark]

Phillip,

I kid you not, but it was usually from the guests at the reception, I was required to take photos of all of them at the tables, which I didn't give a stuff about.

Oh, I know that that part is true: I had the same.

I was calling you on your response: the bit about you being a photographer.