Rooz wrote:gstark wrote:Ok, Chris, I'll play.
Thank you, I was hoping you would. Lol
As Patrick says, you really don't (yet) know this. They've announced two FX bodies, both very high performance, but in very different ways. There's been no DX bodies announced for about a year, but, based upon what we've seen in the last 12 months (D3100, D700, N1, D4 and D800) there's been a hell of a lot of sensor and engine technology development.
Well, as I had mentioned very early in this thread. There should be a d800s. I didn't get much agreement at that point. So glad you have all come around to my way of thinking and agree to it now. lol
Well, yes, and no.
I'm agreeing that the D800 is not the end of the line. I'm agreeing that there should - and will - be other
models.
I'm unconvinced that they'll be in the D800 lineage. They may be. Or perhaps not.
36MP is not the end of the line, and nor are the incremental improvements that we've seen brought in with the D4.
And nor are those similar improvements that we're also seeing in the N1.
I think that you need to go back and review the N1 specs a little more closely: sensor resolution closely matches that of the D800, with good low light performance and high speed shutter operation.
I think that Nikon has been doing a lot of paddling in the sensor development duck pond, and we are yet to see the fruits of all of their labours.
Whether we see a D7100, D700s, D301, D400 or D800s is anyone's guess, but but there's lots of scope for lots of things to occur.
Why do you see the D800 as the end of the road?
Cos that's all Nikon have offered to me right now and again, as isolated in my prior posts. I think this signals a d800s
Why?
Why D800s?
Why not a D4x? D4s?
Or any of the other potential
model names I've noted above?
And just because there's nothing offered today is not an indication that there won't be something tomorrow or next week. Hell, two days ago, the D800 announcement didn't exist, and thus it also wasn't an option for you.
The Cruz of this debate is; is it reasonable for Nikon to produce a d800 without an alternative for low light fast shooting.
Well, they have that alternative. Several, in fact. D700. D3. D4 can all play in that ballpark. Each of them will do a fine job.
And we have yet to see how the D800 performs in low light situations.
Your gripe seems to be that there's not yet a smaller version of the D4. When the D3 came out, it was accompanied by the D300. The D700 - the smaller version of the D3 - followed a year later. Maybe that's the expected timing? I don't know.
So if my d700 dies of cancer soon, I don't see a viable alternative from Nikon
Let's go back a step here.
You don't see a viable
new model alternative from Nikon. But you've failed to tell us what is wrong with the D700 as a
model. Yes, you've told us that your camera has suffered some abnormal wear and tear, but does that make the
model - a new instance of the same camera
model - no longer viable for you?
In other words, what, in a new D700 body, would make it not a viable proposition for you?
Thirdly, this gets back to the point about it not being a logical decision to have a single semi pro fx dslr on the market that alienates a large group of shooters. The d3x and d3 are great examples where Nikon recognizes that different shooters have different needs. I would argue that the semi pro area is far more needing a jack of all trades than the top level so this doesn't make sense to me.
As Chris has already pointed out, pros are unlikely to want jack-of-all-trades bodies. They would rather grab the body that suits the needs of each job they undertake on a job by job basis. That's certainly how I operate: I grab the body (and glass) that I think will best perform the tasks that I need done.
And with the D3/D3x point that you raise, consider that the two bodies in question are now known as the D4 and D800. Your point holds water; only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.
Well, the names, and some significant functionality points too.
We don't know this.
No, we don't. But given the native iso setting peak at iso6400 and it's a 36 mp dslr, I'm gonna be betting that it's not gonna be that flash in low light. Would you disagree with that prediction ?
As a prediction? You betcha!
The sensor technology has come a long way; the D3 is several generations old now, and although the photosites are smaller, they will be more efficient and they're accompanied by a newer, faster processing engine with greater capabilities too.
I have yet to handle either the D4 or the D800, but I do know that each time I handle a new generation of this technology, I am (again and again) blown away by what I'm seeing.
As a prediction, I'm again expecting to be impressed by what I see.
Now maybe Nikon can pull a rabbit out of the hat and redefine the parameters of sensor design and pixel pitch to produce a whopping improvement in low light despite all of the sensor characteristics...but I would suggest to you, this is unlikely.
But yet they do this every two or three years.
I reckon we'll see a couple more rabbits.
Lol...come on Gary. You know as well as I do that it is highly likely, In fact almost certain that a 36mp sensor is gonna be noisier than a 16mp sensor.
The problem with your line of discussion is that there's an inherent assumption that then underlying tech doesn't change.
That is simply not the case.
As soon as the underlying tech changes, so too do all of the other parameters move.
If they alienate the market they aren't gonna get any margin. Going from purchasing a d800 to a d4 is not a logical progression for most people.
But neither the D800 nor the D4 are targeted towards "most people".
To use your car analogy, I doubt many people walk into a Toyota dealer to buy a corolla drive out with a top of the range Camry.
There is no such thing as a top of the range Camry. But I digress.
Those who will walk into a camera store to buy a D800 or a D4 will be well aware, before they set foot anywhere near that store, what they're going to be buying.
Moreover, the total annual number of D4 sales that you'd see from your Hardly Normal stores, would be able to be counted on zero fingers.
Hardly Normal, being your Toyota dealer equivalent, would not be trusted by the camera buyers to sell them this sort of gear.
Budgets dictate much of our decision making.
As far as enthusiasts go, yes, this is true.
If you're a pro, it's a tool. You go and just buy the tools that you need. Budget plays a part, but if the camera is paying its way, it's not actually a budgetary item, but an asset that's used to earn income.
I'm referring to a large part of the market in context of the market the d800 is in. Which is a small body fx dslr.
But it's still just a very small part of the total market