DSLRUsers.com

I'm not proud of myself much but can do this for all first backorder list with better deal than that (Vanbar's price), of course Maxwell stock and DSLRUsers.net's price. You'll be surprised.

sirhc55 wrote: Vanbar are not a discount business per se so if this is their price we can expect lower prices from others

Chris,
Retail's price or price of it on the shelves won't or never be at MID RANGE of TWO GRANDS as of from the quote from someone lately.

sirhc55 wrote:Vanbar are not a discount business per se so if this is their price we can expect lower prices from others

Actually, Vanbar's prices have, as a general rule, been better than most. Certainly they led the field when the D70 was first released.

So I suspect that their prices, once firmed up (as they now seem to be) can be viewed as not being too far off the mark.

[quote="gstark"]
If you've not used a traditional FF with a wide angle lens, you probably won't "get it". It's not you though.

it goes beyond simply quality as determined by pixel count, but suffice to say that the DX lenses don't really do the same job.[/quote]

Gary, Can you please explain what you mean by this? How is a 12mm focal length on a DX sensor different to an 18mm focal length on a FF sensor as far as doing the same job is concerned.

swilk wrote:

gstark wrote:If you've not used a traditional FF with a wide angle lens, you probably won't "get it". It's not you though.

it goes beyond simply quality as determined by pixel count, but suffice to say that the DX lenses don't really do the same job.

Gary, Can you please explain what you mean by this? How is a 12mm focal length on a DX sensor different to an 18mm focal length on a FF sensor as far as doing the same job is concerned.

Can you appreciate the differences between vinyl recordings and those on a CD? It's a similar concept.

So, no, I cannot explain it, but there is a big difference, but you need to experience it

Thanks Gary. I get it now. DX is better than full frame in the same way CDs are better than vinyl

Peter,

You'll keep.

While there are many advantages to CD, inherent warmth within the recording isn't amongst them.

Bring out the EMP device!

gstark wrote:Peter,

You'll keep.

While there are many advantages to CD, inherent warmth within the recording isn't amongst them.

Sony have tried with SACD. The very best sound IMO is a combination of valve power amp with direct feed from a master vinyl played once only - now that is sound, but it still depends on the speaker system

sirhc55 wrote:

gstark wrote:Peter,

You'll keep.

While there are many advantages to CD, inherent warmth within the recording isn't amongst them.

Sony have tried with SACD. The very best sound IMO is a combination of valve power amp with direct feed from a master vinyl played once only - now that is sound, but it still depends on the speaker system

Yes.

I had a talk with Phil from ECS today and he's guestimating $2700 for the D200. He hasn't seen any pricing on the new 18-200 VR2 lens.

Bob.

.

gstark wrote:Can you appreciate the differences between vinyl recordings and those on a CD? It's a similar concept.

So, no, I cannot explain it, but there is a big difference, but you need to experience it

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were comparing digital DX vs digital FF not digital DX vs Film (ie analog) FF.

swilk wrote:

gstark wrote:Can you appreciate the differences between vinyl recordings and those on a CD? It's a similar concept.

So, no, I cannot explain it, but there is a big difference, but you need to experience it

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were comparing digital DX vs digital FF not digital DX vs Film (ie analog) FF.

No, you didn't misunderstand.

The differences between film and digital are great, but I was trying to show you that the differences between FF and DX are quite abstract; consider that I'd quite like a 5D with a couple of nice WA primes; we're still talking digital, but we're talking angle of view, size of viewfinder, what's actually in the viewfinder ... so many things, and none of them are concrete.

gstark wrote:No, you didn't misunderstand.

The differences between film and digital are great, but I was trying to show you that the differences between FF and DX are quite abstract; consider that I'd quite like a 5D with a couple of nice WA primes; we're still talking digital, but we're talking angle of view, size of viewfinder, what's actually in the viewfinder ... so many things, and none of them are concrete.

I'm still not with you then Gary.

Angle of view is dependent on focal length and sensor size. You can get to 15mm FF equivalent with a Sigma 10-20mm on a DX sensor. Do you want to go wider than this?

Size of viewfinder I can understand. I much prefer looking through my 30 year old Pentax than my D70.

"What's actually in the viewfinder". I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about frame coverage 95%, 97% etc

For me the downside of wide angle on a FF digital compared to a DX is the light fall off near the edges due to the angle of incidence of the light hitting the sensor well; and the poor peripheral image quality compared to DX where we are using the best part of the lens (ie the central part).

Steve

swilk wrote:

gstark wrote:No, you didn't misunderstand.

The differences between film and digital are great, but I was trying to show you that the differences between FF and DX are quite abstract; consider that I'd quite like a 5D with a couple of nice WA primes; we're still talking digital, but we're talking angle of view, size of viewfinder, what's actually in the viewfinder ... so many things, and none of them are concrete.

I'm still not with you then Gary.

That's because I'm talking about an abstract concept. Forget the numbers. They're meaningless. Seriously.

You've used a FF camera. Forget the numbers. Just go and play with both styles of camera, and compare the results.

It's that simple, yet it's that complex.

One other point ...

You can get to 15mm FF equivalent with a Sigma 10-20mm on a DX sensor. Do you want to go wider than this?

You can't do anything with a Sigma lens.

Except use it as a paperweight.

I object - you can also use Sigma lenses to defend yourself

That's indefensible, Chris.

gstark wrote:You can't do anything with a Sigma lens.

Except use it as a paperweight.

You can't do this with a paperweight

These are 100% crops from a D70, shot in RAW with no post processing at all. We shot 50 pairs of test shots between these two lenses, the comparitive results were very consistent.

The Sigma at 10mm is on the left, the Nikkor at 12mm on the right, both at F/4, Shutter 1/2000s or 1/1600s

Swilk,
Thats a great pixel peeper shot showing the Sigma is a very sharp lens at F4.
Makes me think which one to buy now.

swilk wrote:

gstark wrote:You can't do anything with a Sigma lens.

Except use it as a paperweight.

You can't do this with a paperweight

These are 100% crops from a D70, shot in RAW with no post processing at all. We shot 50 pairs of test shots between these two lenses, the comparitive results were very consistent.

The Sigma at 10mm is on the left, the Nikkor at 12mm on the right, both at F/4, Shutter 1/2000s or 1/1600s

Steve,

They both look like paperweight excrement to me.

With all due respect, neither are worthy of posting here, nor are they worthy of further comment.

Paul wrote:Swilk,
Thats a great pixel peeper shot showing the Sigma is a very sharp lens at F4.
Makes me think which one to buy now.

With respect, it shows nothing of the sort.

The poster didn't even know what the shutter speeds were - 1600 or 2000 ?

If you're going to compare lenses, and especially if you're going to try to show people the results of your comparisons, at least make the tests somewhat scientific, and comprehensive, and at least provide a factual baisis underlying how the tests were performed.

Finally, we would do well to maintain this thread within its topic.

gstark wrote:Steve,

They both look like paperweight excrement to me.

With all due respect, neither are worthy of posting here, nor are they worthy of further comment.

Gary, In what way are they not worthy?

You made a comment about the usefulness of Sigma lenses. These were 100% crops of tiny parts of test images posted only to show that the Sigma 10-20mm can more than hold its own against the Nikkor 12-24mm.

Steve

Guys Ken Rockwell has updated his review on the D200.... posting the link:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d200.htm

Makes some uncalled for statements about the D2X....but thats Ken

Worth a look if your interested

swilk wrote:

gstark wrote:Steve,

They both look like paperweight excrement to me.

With all due respect, neither are worthy of posting here, nor are they worthy of further comment.

Gary, In what way are they not worthy?

Please see my response to Paul's post. It answers all of your questions.

Please also pay particular note to my final comment in that post.

Start a new topic if anyone wants to debate Sigma V Nikon, this one is too long already. On topic only posting.

swilk wrote:

gstark wrote:You can't do anything with a Sigma lens.

Except use it as a paperweight.

You can't do this with a paperweight

These are 100% crops from a D70, shot in RAW with no post processing at all. We shot 50 pairs of test shots between these two lenses, the comparitive results were very consistent.

The Sigma at 10mm is on the left, the Nikkor at 12mm on the right, both at F/4, Shutter 1/2000s or 1/1600s

Steve,

As this is now getting a little off topic, why don't you create another post in the Equipment Reviews section with a more detailed account of your test of the Sigma 10-20 against the Nikkor 12-24...
I'd love to see some more detail on the conditions / results of your tests...

Edit: Oops, sorry Glen - I didn't see your post before making mine...

John, my thoughts exactly

Sorry to drag this thread kicking and screaming back to on-topic but I was looking through the specs on the dpreview preview of the D200 and noticed that it appears to only have space for one custom tone curve. I was hoping for a couple more slots for this feature...

However, I did notice that it appears to have something that the D70 doesnt, an "Auto" tone compensation as well adjustable contrast tone settings like the D2x.

A question for the D2x owners: How well does this Auto setting work? Do you use it or do you use a custom curve or do you use the Normal/Manual settings?

Sort of off topic here

I saw a pic of the D200 and the sb 800 attached with some guy fiddling around with it and boy did it look ugly! I see my D70s and its perfect shape and functionability. and wonder to myself do I really wanna change as im happy with all my d70 pics for now.

One small gripe I do have with the d70 is with the sb800 attached I fee that the grip is too small to get a decent hold of it.

anyway all this will give me plenty to ponder about in my spare time and once the D200 comes over to australia.

D200

I was browsing HK supplys on ebay and found this, some of you may be interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Nikon-D200-10-2M ... dZViewItem

Michael wrote:D200

I was browsing HK supplys on ebay and found this, some of you may be interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Nikon-D200-10-2M ... dZViewItem

Their new price of the D200 has been posted in the bargain section last week.

Didn't see that sorry

Gee i can't wait for you guys to get your hands on the D200 proper and give it a good going over autofocus especially and let me/us all know what you think. I think the D2X budget target will really be stretching everything , including relationship, especially with my wife's 50th coming up in about 3 weeks.
cheers
marco

marcotrov wrote:Gee i can't wait for you guys to get your hands on the D200 proper and give it a good going over autofocus especially and let me/us all know what you think. I think the D2X budget target will really be stretching everything , including relationship, especially with my wife's 50th coming up in about 3 weeks.
cheers
marco

Why should you wait? preorder the D200 and you'll have it first in your region and you can show it off at her 50th BD.

A friend got to play with one from Maxwell at the AIPP function

Well I thought I might just see how the whole thing works including the autofocus, especially after your advice birdy on not expecting too much from it. I suppose I want to make sure that such an investment is worth making and hence the D200 needs to be considerably better than ther D70.
cheers
marco

shutterbug wrote:A friend got to play with one from Maxwell at the AIPP function

You don't need to go to AIPP and play with it! get into the mini meet in early or mid December to grab one for yourself.

Nothing much you can achieve from those events, a lot of people but only 3 x D200 for show, and you have to wait for your time.

That sounds good

Hmmm....cannot attend the mini meet, fully booked every weekend until Christmas.

More $$ to invest in the D200

hmmm - it seems that the D200 will find its feet after all - or cut down the long legs of the d2x AT LEAST by $1k .


Am i right in understanding that the d200 will meter with a Non CPU lens?(making macro easier)

lejazzcat wrote:hmmm - it seems that the D200 will find its feet after all - or cut down the long legs of the d2x AT LEAST by $1k .


Am i right in understanding that the d200 will meter with a Non CPU lens?(making macro easier)

Yes.

It will also meter with most non-AF lenses.

They've included an AI coupling ring on the lens mount (they must've found a stash of NOS of these in the warehouse ) which means that just about any Nikkor lens ever made since around the mid or late 70's will meter.

I think that's a way cool feature.

Birddog114 wrote:

marcotrov wrote:Gee i can't wait for you guys to get your hands on the D200 proper and give it a good going over autofocus especially and let me/us all know what you think. I think the D2X budget target will really be stretching everything , including relationship, especially with my wife's 50th coming up in about 3 weeks.
cheers
marco

Why should you wait? preorder the D200 and you'll have it first in your region and you can show it off at her 50th BD.

And leave said wife's 50th birthday in a body bag

Robboh said:

And leave said wife's 50th birthday in a body bag

Yeah, and minus the family jewels too!! Women must be the same all over the world. Maybe it's a feminist conspiracy?
cheers
marco