DSLRUsers.com

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:12 pm**

Dad has the 50 and the 55 which he doesn't touch. I have the 45.
I'm more than happy to take the 55 if someone wants to use the 45 who doesn't have something within range. You have to be nice to it though.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:12 pm**

methd wrote:I have a 10.5, 20, 28, and 85mm. I also *had* a 50, but the photography that I do does not require it so I sold it...

I guess you can be a winner next time then.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:14 pm**

cricketfan wrote:
methd wrote:I have a 10.5, 20, 28, and 85mm. I also *had* a 50, but the photography that I do does not require it so I sold it...

I guess you can be a winner next time then.

.. yes, but the mere assumption I don't shoot with primes (not that it's the be end to all lenses in any case) AND the fact that I don't 'stretch my photography skills' to incorporate the use of primes is a tad bit offensive.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:28 pm**

methd wrote:
cricketfan wrote:
methd wrote:I have a 10.5, 20, 28, and 85mm. I also *had* a 50, but the photography that I do does not require it so I sold it...

I guess you can be a winner next time then.

.. yes, but the mere assumption I don't shoot with primes (not that it's the be end to all lenses in any case) AND the fact that I don't 'stretch my photography skills' to incorporate the use of primes is a tad bit offensive.

In which case I apologise.

My point though remains: the challenges and photoshoots that we organise are done not simply because we like to sit around and think of things that people can photograph. The idea is - in every single case - to challenge the photographer to stretch their skills, and to learn new techniques or improve their existing skillset.

But ... a point of order .... primes, as a general statement, are much better lenses than zooms, so yes, they are the "be all and end all".

But that, and any further discussion of that issue, is off-topic in this thread.

The bottom line is thaty you're free to join in this timesnap if you wish, and if you satisfy the criteria, but nobody is going to force you to do that: it's entirely your choice, and for whatever reason you see as being valid.

Right now we have a good number of people who have expressed an intention to join in, and that is the purpose of this thread.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:31 pm**

methd wrote:.. yes, but the mere assumption I don't shoot with primes (not that it's the be end to all lenses in any case) AND the fact that I don't 'stretch my photography skills' to incorporate the use of primes is a tad bit offensive.

I wouldn't make too many assumptions if I were you. They are likely to be wrong! In other words, don't apply for any jobs as a mind-reader, because you suck at it.

Why would a competition with certain criteria be making a comment about you as a photographer?

Buy one; borrow one; hire one!

But mainly - GET OVER IT!

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:34 pm**

I have a 50mm but it is a munual lens on the D70, therefore it does not list the lens used in the EXIF data.

Obviously we are only cheating ourselves if we use a lens other than that specified but will an image be accepted without the lens listed in the EXIF?

Cheers
Rod

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:38 pm**

cricketfan wrote:
methd wrote:.. yes, but the mere assumption I don't shoot with primes (not that it's the be end to all lenses in any case) AND the fact that I don't 'stretch my photography skills' to incorporate the use of primes is a tad bit offensive.

I wouldn't make too many assumptions if I were you. They are likely to be wrong! In other words, don't apply for any jobs as a mind-reader, because you suck at it.

Why would a competition with certain criteria be making a comment about you as a photographer?

Buy one; borrow one; hire one!

But mainly - GET OVER IT!

Hey mate.. I was referring to Gary's assumption that I don't own a prime lens (and apology much accepted, Gary). I don't quite get what you are on about?... maybe get off your high horse and read the other posts before going off?

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:41 pm**

Rod,

Sandy Feet wrote:Obviously we are only cheating ourselves if we use a lens other than that specified but will an image be accepted without the lens listed in the EXIF?

Well said.

And from you, yes.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:41 pm**

methd wrote:
Hey mate..

Hey mate!!!!

YOU included my quote in your post???

YOU are the one who used the word "offensive" in your post???

I suggest you take a step back and think about things.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:44 pm**

cricketfan wrote:
methd wrote:
Hey mate..

Hey mate!!!!

YOU included my quote in your post???

YOU are the one who used the word "offensive" in your post???

I suggest you take a step back and think about things.

It's getting off topic, but even though your quote was included, it wasn't directed at you... at all (I even agreed with you)!?! :roll:

You really DO need to read up before making assumptions of your own

Gary understood it perfectly, not sure why you didn't.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:54 pm**

methd wrote:It's getting off topic, but even though your quote was included, it wasn't directed at you... at all (I even agreed with you)!?!

Ummm ???

You need an English teacher.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:54 pm**

Wait. Shut up both of you. What the hell were we talking about again?

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:56 pm**

Nnnnsic wrote:Wait. Shut up both of you. What the hell were we talking about again?

I'm withdrawing from this debate - only because I am a mod and should be setting an example.

Otherwise, I think that methd is going to war armed with a pop-gun.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:58 pm**

cricketfan wrote:
Nnnnsic wrote:Wait. Shut up both of you. What the hell were we talking about again?

I'm withdrawing from this debate - only because I am a mod and should be setting an example.

Otherwise, I think that methd is going to war armed with a pop-gun.

In my understanding of the English language, "yes" has always been construed as "in agreement".

I can see why you went off though, and I understand as you 'thought' the rest of the post was directed at you, when it wasn't. So let's leave it at that shall we

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:02 pm**

Thank you Gary, You can Count me in

Cheers
Rod

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:03 pm**

gstark wrote:And ... I defy anyone here to put a zoom on their camera, and not adjust the focal length.

before i got my 20mm f2.8 (lens which i use/prefer as general walk-around prime),

i always used to shoot with my 18-70 kit lens fixed at 18mm,

although i understand for simplicities sake that this is a 50mm challenge (i in fact have a 50mm lens), where only primes can be used, i do not understand the difference between:

- someone picking up a 50mm lens, framing and shooting a photo,

and

- picking up a 17-50 and leaving it at 50mm, using their discipline, and not zooming at all, framing, and then shooting the photo.

unless i am missing something?

i do understand what you mean about the 'feel' behind shooting with a prime, it is very pure and i much prefer it to a zoom,

but say if i got a zoom and left it at 50mm all day (for arguments sake lets say i physically fix it with tape into that position), then there is no difference between that and a 50mm, imho.

bahhhhh, i guess what im asking is there something intrinsically differnet between shooting a photo at a given focallength with a zoom to that shot at the same focal length with a prime???

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:06 pm**

that's what *WE* all have been saying... but Gary doesn't seem to want to budge...

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:08 pm**

jamesw wrote:, i guess what im asking is there something intrinsically differnet between shooting a photo at a given focallength with a zoom to that shot at the same focal length with a prime???

You answered your own question within your post.

Let me say this one more time: this is a PRIME photoshoot. Deal with it.

Can we now please focus on the purpose of this thread?

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:10 pm**

dont get me wrong, im not arguing about the challenge, i have a 50mm 1.8, and if i am feeling up to it on the day (going under the dental knife earlier that week, it will sideline me for a week or two) i will take a shot for the challenge.

i can understand why gary has suggested we use primes. primes have a certain untangible purity to them, imho, and i prefer to use them whenever possible.

if gary has decided that we use primes, we use primes. i consider that fair enough.

my question was a serious question, not intending to whinge or whine about the challenge.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:12 pm**

I'm sorry - I can't help myself.

It's a competition! There are some criteria to make it interesting! We are not saying anything about people who use prime lenses v people who use zooms!

There is no agenda other than to make people think and to (hopefully) improve their photography.

If the competition required images to be made at 1600 ISO, it would not mean that people who normally shoot at 100 ISO were somehow doing something wrong!

Please, let's get into the spirit of the thing rather than making comments about whether a photog who uses primes is somehow better/worse than one who uses zooms (or a pinhole camera!

)

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:12 pm**

gstark wrote:
jamesw wrote:, i guess what im asking is there something intrinsically differnet between shooting a photo at a given focallength with a zoom to that shot at the same focal length with a prime???

You answered your own question within your post.

Let me say this one more time: this is a PRIME photoshoot. Deal with it.

Can we now please focus on the purpose of this thread?

read above post, wasnt assking the question to add fuel to the fire, it was a serious quesiton.

i am guessing there is no difference because you have not answered my question and you havent given anyone else a satisfactory answer.

if thats the case, fair enough, wasnt causing a fuss, like ive said a few times i prefer shooting primes just because it prefer that feel.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:16 pm**

jamesw wrote:if gary has decided that we use primes

Actually, not just me.

The KMs discussed the matter, following a discussion between Matt K and myself which resulted in a suggestion from Matt that I wholly endorse.

Quite frankly, I think it's one of the best ideas we've seen, and the mere fact that some of you seem to be objecting to this is an affirmation of this fact.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:18 pm**

gstark wrote:
jamesw wrote:if gary has decided that we use primes

Actually, not just me.

The KMs discussed the matter, following a discussion between Matt K and myself which resulted in a suggestion from Matt that I wholly endorse.

Quite frankly, I think it's one of the best ideas we've seen, and the mere fact that some of you seem to be objecting to this is an affirmation of this fact.

i just wanted to make sure you know im not objecting, i like the idea too. primes are the shiz

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:19 pm**

The aim of this challenge is to encourage the forum member to pick up their 50mm prime and get a feel for the prime lens at a fixed focal length. It's basically going back to the roots of photography where framing and composition overides the luxuries of using a zoom lens.

The fatal flaw of this exercise appears to be that if the forum member already has a 50mm prime, then there's a good chance they've walked around with their said 50mm and taken pictures at said 50mm and got a feel for what a prime lens is all about.

The other issue that comes to mind is how we can convert those who do not own a prime lens, and encourage them to use it. It is unlikely they will buy a 50mm prime for this sole purpose, although it wouldn't hurt to do so, but the question is... Wouldn't the original purpose of this exercise be better accomplished if members were allowed to use zooms "set" at 50mm to get a feel for shooting with a 50mm prime, and isn't what this challenge is all about?

They can then make up their mind based on the restricted focal length, get a feel for what 50mm prime would be like and maybe become a better photographer for that reason.

Sorry if I wrote a bit too much... but that's what I feel.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:21 pm**

jamesw wrote:i am guessing there is no difference because you have not answered my question and you havent given anyone else a satisfactory answer.

The difference (I think) is in how you "see" your (intended) image.

FWIW, I like the concept of a zoom lens taped to sit at a particular focal length, but I doubt I'd use 50mm for that one. :twisted:

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:47 pm**

gstark wrote:
jamesw wrote:i am guessing there is no difference because you have not answered my question and you havent given anyone else a satisfactory answer.

The difference (I think) is in how you "see" your (intended) image.

i agree

gstark wrote:FWIW, I like the concept of a zoom lens taped to sit at a particular focal length, but I doubt I'd use 50mm for that one.

you should make it a challenge! tape your lens to some given focal length! youd need a photo of you taking the photo to prove it was taped! hahahah

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:57 pm**

I remember when a 50mm lens was the lens supplied with a 35mm camera when purchased new...... some people referred to this lens as the normal focal length lens....

Matt should be able to add to this if only for interest[/i]

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:03 pm**

Cool I will be in Canberra on this day and at Mount Stromlo, so this will be good fun..

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:26 pm**

I should be in for this

I got a spare 50mm if anyone needs for the day

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:27 pm**

I wonder if there's a mod that can add ball gags to avatars...

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:10 am**

methd wrote:The aim of this challenge is to encourage the forum member to pick up their 50mm prime and get a feel for the prime lens at a fixed focal length. It's basically going back to the roots of photography where framing and composition overides the luxuries of using a zoom lens.

The fatal flaw of this exercise appears to be that if the forum member already has a 50mm prime, then there's a good chance they've walked around with their said 50mm and taken pictures at said 50mm and got a feel for what a prime lens is all about.

The other issue that comes to mind is how we can convert those who do not own a prime lens, and encourage them to use it. It is unlikely they will buy a 50mm prime for this sole purpose, although it wouldn't hurt to do so, but the question is... Wouldn't the original purpose of this exercise be better accomplished if members were allowed to use zooms "set" at 50mm to get a feel for shooting with a 50mm prime, and isn't what this challenge is all about?

They can then make up their mind based on the restricted focal length, get a feel for what 50mm prime would be like and maybe become a better photographer for that reason.

Sorry if I wrote a bit too much... but that's what I feel.

I agree with you methd!!!!

I think its reasonable to be able to participate, if we set our zooms to 50mm, period.

Do any of those involved in the decision (Key Members) not own a 50mm? I have 50mm covered by zooms, and primes either side of it.

I dont think I got an answer to 30mm (which at near 45mm equivalent).

Perhaps we can have two categories in the gallery, one zooms, one for primes.

This is the first challenge/idea that has prescribed kit (to my knowledge), which is unfair. The concept of challenges, is to challenge, stretch, extend, push each other into areas we do not often venture, or step outside our comfort zone.

I would love to participate in this (and other "focal length" challenges), but as I look down at my kit of lenses, without a 50mm I can not. I ask that the KM's reconsider the allowances of zooms set to 50mm, or put forward a good case as to why it would not be in the spirit of "challenges".

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:21 am**

jamesw wrote:youd need a photo of you taking the photo to prove it was taped! hahahah

Isn't that the point of the challenge, taking a photo of a 50mm lens?

Oh, wait...

Cheers
Steffen.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:31 am**

Here is what Matt K posted on this matter in the KM section.

There was a time when you purchased a 35mm SLR film camera it came with a 50mm lens attached. Most beginers couldn't get rid of the damn things quick enough and get hold of some 'real' lenses...such as a 135mm or 21mm or, if they could afford it, a 105 or 180 prime. And those who stuck with photography for the long haul gradually...after many years, would discover their packed away 50mm lens and suddenly realise how foolish they had been. Why? The 50mm lens is considered a 'normal' perspective lens beacuse its field of view is similar to the field of view of human vision. For that reason it is a very unspectacular 'boring' lens to look through. But, handled with care it would gradually reveal its true brilliance....stunning bokeh at large apertures, sharp as a tack and jewel like contrast and close focus range. It's small and light and doesn't intimidate your subject. It's reliable as a Humvee or a Volvo. And when the light slips away it shines with its F1.2 or f1.4 or f1.8 magic eye. On a digital SLR the lens retains all of this splendor but gives the same perspective as an 75mm lens. Perfect for portraits and great for almost any subject. This is the professional photographers secret and that's why Gary smiles with pleasure at the prospect of seeing the results from this challange. It will also be illuminating for novice photographers to see what can be done with such an uninspiring looking little optical device.
OH! And I almost forgot. It's cheap.

As Trevor has pointed out, this is no different from any other rules for any other challenge. The choice is yours as to whether you participate or not, and remember, there is no rule that says that you must own the lens in question; borrowing one is fine.

I've said it before, and I will not say it again: please now keep on topic.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:34 am**

Oz_Beachside wrote:
methd wrote:The aim of this challenge is to encourage the forum member to pick up their 50mm prime and get a feel for the prime lens at a fixed focal length. It's basically going back to the roots of photography where framing and composition overides the luxuries of using a zoom lens.

The fatal flaw of this exercise appears to be that if the forum member already has a 50mm prime, then there's a good chance they've walked around with their said 50mm and taken pictures at said 50mm and got a feel for what a prime lens is all about.

The other issue that comes to mind is how we can convert those who do not own a prime lens, and encourage them to use it. It is unlikely they will buy a 50mm prime for this sole purpose, although it wouldn't hurt to do so, but the question is... Wouldn't the original purpose of this exercise be better accomplished if members were allowed to use zooms "set" at 50mm to get a feel for shooting with a 50mm prime, and isn't what this challenge is all about?

They can then make up their mind based on the restricted focal length, get a feel for what 50mm prime would be like and maybe become a better photographer for that reason.

Sorry if I wrote a bit too much... but that's what I feel.

I agree with you methd!!!!

I think its reasonable to be able to participate, if we set our zooms to 50mm, period.

Do any of those involved in the decision (Key Members) not own a 50mm? I have 50mm covered by zooms, and primes either side of it.

I dont think I got an answer to 30mm (which at near 45mm equivalent).

Perhaps we can have two categories in the gallery, one zooms, one for primes.

This is the first challenge/idea that has prescribed kit (to my knowledge), which is unfair. The concept of challenges, is to challenge, stretch, extend, push each other into areas we do not often venture, or step outside our comfort zone.

I would love to participate in this (and other "focal length" challenges), but as I look down at my kit of lenses, without a 50mm I can not. I ask that the KM's reconsider the allowances of zooms set to 50mm, or put forward a good case as to why it would not be in the spirit of "challenges".

This is not a CHALLENGE - rather an exercise involving a 50mm lens - a prime lens on a particular day at a specific time - what would you do if it involved Sigma only and you didn’t have one :?:

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:25 am**

Matt. K wrote:There are photographers here who don't own a 50mm prime lens?

i own 3, just none of them fit the nikon.

i'll be in sydney on the 14th as well if anyone wants to lend an out of towner a lens for a day

doubt if the wife will let me lay down some cash for one given the amount of toys i've bought in the last week, although I'm up for a challenge.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:15 am**

G'day

Camera? - check
50mm lens? - check
10:00am local time - Oh shit !!!

I tried the Anzac day challenge but I just couldn't move myself from the bed which I only got into at 7:30am.

For those of us in Perth, could we PLEASE do it at 12:00 midday local time? I am not a morning person, I often work late to very late at night. Getting up by 10:00am is a difficulty at the best of times, being up in time to be somewhere *interesting* by 10:00am is almost impossible.

If we could go for midday Parisian time that would be better still, by then I will be in a delghtfull small French eatery in Ballingup in the South West of WA.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:45 am**

BullcreekBob wrote:For those of us in Perth, could we PLEASE do it at 12:00 midday local time? I am not a morning person, I often work late to very late at night. Getting up by 10:00am is a difficulty at the best of times, being up in time to be somewhere *interesting* by 10:00am is almost impossible.

If we could go for midday Parisian time that would be better still, by then I will be in a delghtfull small French eatery in Ballingup in the South West of WA.

I don't have a major problem with either of these ...., and as for (I think) Andrew, if you're shooting something French, so much the better.

Simon, where in Sydney will you be? We'd love to meet you, and I'm sure we could manage a lens for you.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:07 am**

Should be interesting to see the results from this. Unfortunately I won't be able to join in as I don't have a 50mm prime and the chances of getting one are slim and none at present

Can't wait to see some of the images though

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:33 am**

Hi,
I'm new around here.
Is this challenge day still open for registration/signup?
Are people bringing their partners to the day/dinner?

Cheers,
Ed

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:28 am**

Hi Ed, and welcome.

ed. wrote:Hi,
I'm new around here.
Is this challenge day still open for registration/signup?

Yep. This sort of thing is for you to join in and shoot based upon where you are at the appointed time. The difference here is that we're restricting this to 50 mm prime lenses only. We accept that some people may not be able to join in due to that restriction, but that's how it is.

There will be a gallery of the shots taken opened up, and detailed upload instructions given in due course.

Are people bringing their partners to the day/dinner?

The dinner is a separate event, being held on August 4, to help celebrate our 3rd anniversary. There are other events on the same day - please see the ront page announcement - and partners are always welcome at any event that we hold.

And could you please adjust the location as stated in your profile. Your postcode doesn't satisfy our requirements, and knowing your location can be very helpful in the event that you may, at some time in the future, need assistance from another member here. Not to mention that you won't be granted access to the members' sections with a non-compliant location.

Thanx for your future cooperation.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:47 am**

Great idea, Gary. Nothing else on, and I have the required lens, so I'm in.

Bob

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:34 pm**

I'm in Gary. I have a 50/1.4 lying around somewhere. Now where did I leave those extension tubes? That wouldn't be altering the optics would it? :twisted:

OK, OK, no tubes.

Is global PPing acceptable. Say with Photomatix s/w? :wink:

Cheers
John

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:33 pm**

gstark wrote:It's basically a different discipline, a different mindset. You need to look at your photographic opportunities differently, because you no longer have the flexibility that a zoom offers you.

Okay,

So as has been said, this challenge is for a different mindset, I believe Gary said in another post that different framing and perspective would also apply.

Do these statements infer that we shouldn't be cropping the image taken with our prime either?

Many P&S cameras advertise things like 20X zoom which is 5X optical zoom coupled with 4X software zoom. Do I loose the software zoom in this challenge? I wasn't planning on doing so, I just wanted to clarify the rules.

I already know that this challenge is going to cause me to get much closer to my subject(s) than I often do. Perhaps to even go where I've never gone before. I know my more "usual" shots are taken in the 125mm+ focal length.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:14 pm**

Gary,

je vais participé à cette "timestamp" :wink:

André

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:24 pm**

I'm in!

Question though...... Do I have to put my 50/1.4 on the camera in the forward direction or is reverse OK as well???

Wind em up and watch em go :twisted:

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:51 pm**

gstark wrote:
Simon, where in Sydney will you be? We'd love to meet you, and I'm sure we could manage a lens for you.

pretty sure I'm staying in byron bay, coming for a trade show friday and saturday, going to cram it all in friday if possible to leave the weekend free.

going to do a quick trawl round the cash converters stores to see if someone has cashed a decent one in.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:23 pm**

Hi all,

I've got the gear (camera plus 50mm f1.

however I'm going to be in Germany on that day.
The time at the moment and then is 8 hours behind fron Australian Eastern Standard Time.
So I don't think that I'll be taking a photo at 2am in the morning.
See you all in a month and happy shooting.

Cheers,
CD

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:24 pm**

Count me in..probably

It appears there may be some fluidity with the time...AEST..local time..Paris time..Tahiti time...New Caledonia time...former French African colonies time..Louisiana Purchase time

Could I suggest that the shot can be taken at anytime on Bastille Day. The reasons are purely selfish..I'll probably be otherwise occupied at 12 midday, but I think it might allow some flexibility to get into a sort of Bastille theme. Becomes a daystamp rather than a timestamp though...
If the suggestion is outside the spirit of the event then I'm happy for it to be hosed down....don't want any merde to hit the fan over it... :lol:

(in which case it WILL need to be hosed down)

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:22 pm**

christiand wrote:Hi all,

I've got the gear (camera plus 50mm f1. however I'm going to be in Germany on that day.

Shoot something German, and we'll relax the timing for you.

Or duck across to to France for a couple of days.

Posted: **Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:23 pm**

shakey wrote:Count me in..probably

It appears there may be some fluidity with the time...AEST..local time..Paris time..Tahiti time...New Caledonia time...former French African colonies time..Louisiana Purchase time

We're being somewhat flexible with the time ... and especially if your image has a French theme.

What do you have in mind?

DSLRUsers.com

Timesnap #2: Prime Photoshoot - Bastille Day, July 14 2007